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Post by Angel One on Dec 26, 2003 22:00:23 GMT
Weve all heard the stories. People get murdered, and their spirit is unable to rest until the murderer is exposed, troubled spirit haunts the house where he died etc etc.
But there must be thousands and thousands of people murdered every week, and even more people dying tragically or suddenly. Why do some of them return as ghosts, and some dont?
More importantly, wouldnt your spirit be free after you die? If you were murdered, wouldnt you be free of the need to be avenged?
Thoughts anyone? I have a feeling its something to do with the spirit itself, some kind of unfinished business... Maybe their fate didnt quite end with their death?
What do you guys think?
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Post by Vaisnava on Dec 27, 2003 2:31:16 GMT
Death is not necessarily liberation from this world. And sometimes one can be so attached to a specific incarnation that they will remain in a ghostly form. I think that's why people refer to them as "spirits with unfinished business". They feel as if there is something that needs to be done before they can move on. Chances are though, that because of this attachment they have, once the business is finished the entity will probably not be attaining liberation to the spiritual world right away. Simply another material life. The reason I say this is because for one to be eligible for liberation they have to be completely unattached from this world and focused on The Supreme Lord. If they are still here in some ghostly form trying to finish some materialistic work, then they still have some attachment. I'm tired and I'm rambling on, so I'll end this now.... (yawn)  |
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Izkata
Member
T-I-dubble 'guh' errr
Posts: 164
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Post by Izkata on Dec 27, 2003 17:49:20 GMT
Or maybe those that end up staying simply are the ones that don't understand that they're dead? "Simple solutions to complex problems." - Clay, Xiaolin Showdown on the FoxBox  |
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Post by Vaisnava on Dec 27, 2003 18:19:35 GMT
Or maybe those that end up staying simply are the ones that don't understand that they're dead? "Simple solutions to complex problems." - Clay, Xiaolin Showdown on the FoxBox Yes, this would be a symptom of being still attached to a specific material incarnation. So attached that one was not ready to let go and could not see that the body had died already. This is a possibility. |
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Post by Angel One on Dec 27, 2003 20:48:03 GMT
So they dont return to spirit immediatly? And go straight into another life? Ok...
Wouldnt the act of death liberate all material stigma? Wouldnt it... free them of their earthly bounds no matter what?
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Post by Vaisnava on Dec 27, 2003 21:55:47 GMT
So they dont return to spirit immediatly? And go straight into another life? Ok... Wouldnt the act of death liberate all material stigma? Wouldnt it... free them of their earthly bounds no matter what? Not necessarily. It depends on one's attachment. Why would it be sensical that an entity be liberated upon death if they still have some sort of material attachment? You will remain amongst that which you are closest to. There is not one material incarnation and then liberation. There are as many so long as the entity remains attached to this world. Christians typically believe that this current body is the only one they will incorporate in their existence. But, for an entity to go to "hell" is for the entity to reincarnate into some other material form with the capacity for pain and suffering, (perhaps, pain and suffering to a much higher degree than we have in these human bodies) |
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Post by Marquis on Dec 28, 2003 1:50:54 GMT
I do not know liberation of spirit or ghosts, all I know is that right now, I feel pretty good, generally, as I sit here listening to music, sipping on nice warm cup of tea. If you cannot enjoy these moments of life, what use is death, life without living is death in itself. Live when you live now and die when you die. So simple, everything else after doesn't matter. We come intot his World with nothing, and we go with nothing, so people shouldn't try to hang so much onto material things for they are just rocks, thats what they are.
peace
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Post by Angel One on Dec 28, 2003 13:01:56 GMT
True marquis. But I view the earthly plane as a plane of.. illusion, maybe even deceit. I view death as a knowing, a remembering of your souls knowledge. And I am uncertain as to why a ghost, possessing that souls knowledge, woulc return to the earthly plane.
Vaisnava, are you sayign these entities that still have an attachment to the eartly plane have not reacquired their souls knowledge at all, or they have remembered, and chosen to come back?
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Post by Vaisnava on Dec 28, 2003 20:10:37 GMT
True marquis. But I view the earthly plane as a plane of.. illusion, maybe even deceit. I view death as a knowing, a remembering of your souls knowledge. And I am uncertain as to why a ghost, possessing that souls knowledge, woulc return to the earthly plane. Vaisnava, are you sayign these entities that still have an attachment to the eartly plane have not reacquired their souls knowledge at all, or they have remembered, and chosen to come back? If they were ghosts residing in this material world, then they obviously still have their material attachments. They have not acquired full knowledge of the soul. If they had, they wouldn't have remained here as ghosts in the first place... Death is not a knowing or remembering of your soul. There is nothing that is dead that can know or remember anything. Death is but a symptom of the body. If the soul is not ready to be liberated upon the death of the body, then it will remain in the material world. And at times, because an entity can be so attached to a specific incarnation, they will remain as a ghost of that previous incarnation until they feel they have completed whatever it is they remain there for. Generally, people who die that are not in divine consciousness transmigrate to another material form, either on this planet or on another. |
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Post by Angel One on Dec 29, 2003 2:28:52 GMT
What do you mean by "in divine consciousness"?? Why would some people be in divine consciousness and other wouldnt be?
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Post by Vaisnava on Dec 29, 2003 6:23:48 GMT
What do you mean by "in divine consciousness"?? Why would some people be in divine consciousness and other wouldnt be? We all have this divine consciousness, but it has to be *realized*. Our divine consciousness is covered in material energy. This material energy has bewildered us in forgetting this divine consciousness. One whose body is at the point of death, who is not realized in this real consciousness will remain covered by material energy. |
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Post by Angel One on Dec 29, 2003 12:31:58 GMT
Ah that makes a lot of sense actually, thanks for explaining it. Its quite similiar to my beliefs...
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