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Post by Marquis on Feb 9, 2004 3:18:07 GMT
well there are different sect of buddhism, some buddhsit sect protray buddha as god, which is completely against buddha's teachings, but it happens as it did with christianity but its certainly not at the level of worshipping a deity as christianity is. But core teachigns of buddhism are just as vir described. We are our own saviors in spirituality, however dun get it confused with our own existance. We are inter-dependent beings, none of us are independent at all. Our very exsitance depends on somethign that is not of "us"(our ego personality etc)...air, water, warmths of our home and bed. In buddhism, we give thanks for all these things, for without it we cannot be alive.
peace
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Post by Sniper on Feb 10, 2004 3:58:13 GMT
I cannot agree with this statement. We depend only on ourselves. Nothing and no one can control us.
... why to thank? We were born that way, that wasn't our choice, we take it as granted and that's all. And if to thank - whom? Whom do you think we must thank?
If you mean "to thank for our living", but buddhism practices getting rid of all desires, and it includes the will to live. So if you don't want to live, how can you thank for it?..
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Post by Marquis on Feb 10, 2004 4:43:24 GMT
You said buddhism only relies on oneself, and its not true for in buddhism we thank for everything and is grateful for anything and everything which helps us be more positive in our outlook on life. Thank whom? Who else do you thank but the water, for giving us life, air for sustaining it, and wind for guiding our steps? Our parents for their love and support? You thank the ones that you think needs thanking lol who else...the ones that YOU think deserves thanks. I thank you for this oppurtunity to share ideals.  We are dependent only upon ourselves on our search for spiritual truth, we read books, but they're just tools, we are our ultimately our own saviors. Yea, we are taught do get rid of desire but what is desire? Desire to get rid of desire is also an desire. There is neccessity and needless desire, where do you draw the line? I don't know, lately I have stopped drawing lines or labeling...maybe its too much meditation lol I feel light and free from labels, desire leads to suffering, getting rid of desire is definately helpful in getting rid of suffering. However life is meant to be enjoyed, as you said we were born this way, so live life, and love it, moment to moment, buddhism is also just a tool, its actually a garbage to me at this moment. Whatever hinderance that lay, get rid of it, ideals concepts, pride, hate...real simple. Breateh in breateh out, see its not hard. peace |
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Post by Marquis on Feb 10, 2004 4:50:43 GMT
BTW can you say that a plant is independent? It needs rain, good soil to grow on. Nothing is in reality independent...I think buddhism recognizes that and that's why buddhism emphasizes inter-dependence of all beings, meaning we are all one...and yet individual. Two different ideals able to coexist at the same time...I'll get into this more later...I gotta sleep now..and I got a exam tomm...life is still good though...too good. ;D
peace
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Post by Sniper on Feb 12, 2004 3:48:52 GMT
As for being dependent - I said already and I can repeat that we are independent. Yes, we are. We do not need water, we do not need air, we do not need anything. BUT, our bodies do. Saying "we" I meant our spirits, not our temporary bodies. As far as our bodies are made like that, I see no reason for being grateful for everything I use, for some simple reason: I did not choose it. I did not choose to be born, I never asked for any support, I never asked for respect, indeed I hate to ask about anything. So why to say "thank you" when you never said "please"? Grateful for nothing...
Breathing is a result of will to live - Aleister Crowley said that. I think we can add heart beat to it too. Those who really got rid of the desire to live can stop their hearts whenever they want to.
Indeed saying "thank you" for everything reminds me the principles of christianity... just substituting god with water, air, etc... as well as enjoying life... any desire can be interepreted as a necessity...
You are you, me is me, and that guy outside is that guy outside, we all are different, we aren't one.
And I don't feel like saying "thank you for sharing opinions" as everyone has an opinion, and a person should have one. That's quite naturally that we show them and share them. However I think sharing opinions just like debating is almost always a waste of time...
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Post by Marquis on Feb 12, 2004 4:00:42 GMT
oh so you're wastign time now then?  peace |
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Post by Marquis on Feb 12, 2004 4:19:26 GMT
you need food that is necessity...and yes it can be translated into necessity anythign can. However you arleady know what is true and what is neccessary and what is not. Anything has a action and reaction...your eye is reading this now because there was light, and there was yoru hand which clicked on this thread. And because there is computer. My hand is where it is now beause I have moved it there...its not a belif, but a fact that everything is inter-dependent. That's why I say all is one, because we are inter dependent, think abou tit, how would you exist if air didn't exist. And how owuld your soul or consciousness exist if saya toms which make up eeverything did not exist. In fact, we would not exist at all. Our whole being is interdependent, we are consequences of action arised from another, and another arised from another. However we are separate at the same time, because only an individual can reach his/her own enlightenment nobody else can do this for them.
In buddhism, we are to question everythig even what Buddha said, which is why we are encouraged to have a mindset of "only do not know". Therefore to believe that there is a cosciousness beyond death simply because someone said no matter who would not be very buddhist like or wise. I do believe in life after death tho.. not cause i'm buddhist but I have astral projected before, and have read of countless nde expereinces. Also energy enever dies...but it changes shape which fits perfectly into reincarnation theory. But say that I was wrong, hey I only do not know, as far as it goes, majority of my belief comes from opinions and speculations therefore I search for truth and I have found it. There is no life past this or next. This is my only life, this is the only life as far as I'm concerned..this very moment. Moment is life. So why not live it instead of arguing about irrelevant topics? ;D
peace
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Post by Marquis on Feb 12, 2004 4:26:22 GMT
BTW yes no one can hold you back, and force you to worship something. I'm very glad you're able to see that truth, however are you sure you're not holding yourself back from your true self? I know it happens to me alot soemtyimes, but I;m workign on it lol Impurity of mind covers the bright mirror that reflects all. peace |
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Post by Angel One on Feb 12, 2004 17:08:27 GMT
I agree. The body is just a shell for the soul, it is material, so it need material things to survice. Great debate btw, both of you lol |
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Post by Marquis on Feb 12, 2004 23:34:50 GMT
just? It crries our verye bing, which makes it much more than "just' a shell. Afterall great engine may help run a car run but without the car, engine cannot go anywhere. Our body is important...therefore it should be treated with love and care. peace |
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Post by Sniper on Feb 13, 2004 0:47:41 GMT
Bodies die, buldings fall, trees burn. Material is not eternal, while soul is beyond time and not effected by it.
There are thing our body needs and thing our body wants. I don't want to be hostile but my body wants to punch through a wall... that is a desire, not a nececcity: one can abandon spiritual life and concentrate on physical. My spirit won't change no matter if I can punch through a wall... unless it will be spoiled by this misleading aim.
Yes, I think we all waste 90% of our life time.
Body or soul? Outer or inner? Respect or self-respect? These are the questions.
Enjoying is satisfying desires.
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Post by Marquis on Feb 13, 2004 2:02:20 GMT
Building fall, trees burn, exactly. Material things are impermaneant, therefore focusing on them or expecting it to make us happy would be waste of energy. therefore to fulfill a desire isn't an true enjoyment, for you cannot enjoy that certain enjoyment unless you do soemthing you desire which means that certain "enjoyment" isn't eternal or true enjoyment at all. You will still be realying on something impermaneant to make you happier. Instead as you said why not find yoru true spirit or soul to make you happy? Go back to the truth, and truth is AHHHH scream when you scream, eat when you eat, sleep when you sleep, and laugh at the joy of existance. When's the last time you ate? I mean really ate, not thinking abotu future or next mement, not thinking abotu past but really sat there and ate your meal in awareness and total satisfaction? See, heaven's at your doorstep, many do nto realize it. Only fools can't see...except they CAN see...see? peace |
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Post by Marquis on Feb 13, 2004 4:51:41 GMT
internal or external? Why not both? Punch through the wall, that is not body's desire, your body doesnt say I want to punch through the wall, its your mind. Emptiness in all things, besides atom being mostly an empty space, no object says it will mkae you happy, but we make it be, for exmaply money car etc...they appear to give us happiness, but the source of that happiness has always been from yourself. Who are you, besides yoru name, hwo you look, what you do, what are you? What were you before you were born? What are you now? Free yourself, by contemplating these questions very seriously, know the core of your being, know the source of "self"...for this is soul or our consiousness in its most awake form. BTW you mentioned crowley, he's a well-known satanist, and if you relie your beliefs based on him, our beliefs would be different. However if you let go of his beliefs and mine, and yours, and just live, then all of us are one in spirit, and you will realize the fundamental structure of life. It is NOW..NOW now and now later is also NOW. Right now wherever you are, life is there, whatever you do it is part of life. peace |
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Post by Sniper on Feb 14, 2004 4:03:35 GMT
BTW you mentioned crowley, he's a well-known satanist, and if you relie your beliefs based on him, our beliefs would be different. And you've just put a label, or even two, lables you said you don't put on people. You did that like a true catholic... As for now, no future and no past - I see a herd of sheep, to-morrow they'll be dead, they'll be killed, but today they are happy... why? Because they do not think about to-morrow and do not remember yesterday... thinking is a burden, a burden that won't allow mankind to be happy. You mentioned cars, etc. again these are material and create an illusion of happiness. And when you have a car, you want a better car, when you have money, you want more money, that is a quagmire in which many people disappear... What am I? Myself. I do not remember what I were in a previous life and I don't know the future. If I am still here it means that my spirit isn't free yet, so the memories of the previous lives would be a burden for me, I'd remember mistakes I did, but with no memories I get each time a new change in this endless circle. And with memories remaining it would be impossible... |
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Post by Marquis on Feb 14, 2004 5:04:50 GMT
A person well renowned for conducting satanic rituals and sacrificing human lives would be considered a satanist. You have to realize that sky is blue and yellow and red but never at the same instance of what we define as time, that sky is dark and not blue in this cold night. I said. If I'm a buddhist, and you quote a well known satanist, then isn't it simple that what we tend to believe would be different? I also did say that buddhism to me then was garbage, but now I see I need it once again. When reaching the destination map becomes useless to the person who reached there, but those who need direction still needs it. And which is the right destination that is right path for all individuals? that would be each individual to decide. You are here, because you were meant to be here...simple nothing more nothing less, if you weren't meant to be here, you wouldn't be here, stop STOP STOP right there, thats all it is. that's all enlightenment is.
A student frustrated at not knowing the truth he wanted to know so much went to his master and said I'm so frustated, and mad. The master said...it will pass. After years of practicing, he realized the truth of all things, he went to his master and said, I see it now, I'm filled with joy at seeing it. The the master said it too shall soon pass. Ahhh, I feel it now, buddhism is a wonderful tool, but tool is all it is. There are many other wonderful paths and vehicles on our path to one, but there may be other paths to other directions as well...in this state compassion naturally arises. Like an adult would help a child walk...I cannot blame a baby for not knowing right from wrong, do you?
peace
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