what is "Spiritual"?

[Angel One]

Oh ok I think I get what your saying.

Also, the common mistake that many people make, (and I think you may be doing), is to consider the fundamental and eternal unmanifest material energy to be spiritual energy.

Ok, now if i read that right, your saying that there is a difference between *unmanifest* physical energy, and spirit?
Meaning there is physical energy out there that hasnt been manifested as a physical object?

The ice cube and the (converted) steam from the ice cube exist simultaneously. You see, in the spiritual world the ice cube does not cease in it's form to take on the form of steam. The steam is there and the ice cube is there and they are one... and different, simultaneously. They do not share a similar fundamental energy. They ARE the same fundamental energy in their very forms as ice cube and steam.

Ok I think I get that.... So how does that effect the material reality then? When our eyes see the cube changing to steam?

[Vaisnava]

Angel said:

Oh ok I think I get what your saying.

Ok, now if i read that right, your saying that there is a difference between *unmanifest* physical energy, and spirit?
Meaning there is physical energy out there that hasnt been manifested as a physical object?

Sure, I suppose. And this material energy we are currently in (universe) will become unmanifest at some point. The duration of the universe is billions upon trillions of years. There could be material energy somewhere in existence that is unmanifest right now, but as of this moment, this universe is manifest. When it becomes unmanifest, we won't know.

Angel said:

Ok I think I get that.... So how does that effect the material reality then? When our eyes see the cube changing to steam?

What about the material reality? How does spirit affect it? Well, the spirit-soul is what drives the material energy to come alive and act. Each living entity is a spiritual being clothed in material energy. Even the action of the melting ice cube is a manifestation that requires The Supreme Lord's Will. God is responsible for the manifestations, although, he simply sets up the laws and let's us play to our own desire.

And although the spirit-soul animates these bodies, it is always unaffected and unchanged by them...

"A person in the divine consciousness, although engaged in seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, eating, moving about, sleeping and breathing, always knows within himself that he actually does nothing at all. Because while speaking, evacuating, receiving, opening or closing his eyes, he always knows that only the material senses are engaged with their objects and that he is aloof from them." -Bhagavad-Gita; Ch 5, Txt 8-9

[Silver Incubus]

I have not seen you give any evedence of this spirit. I think that you may have the wrong Idea about the spirit. You belief sounds very similar to Plato's forms. That a perfect form of everything exists and that is how we recognize all physical reality.

My real question would be, what caused the spirit to initially form, for things cannot exist as unchanging manifest. I think of it more as a whole

I guess I call your spiritual energy Life energy. But it is all energy, and as such it all changes. The soul, the spirit changes, it has to, otherwise physical existance would be pointless.

All is the same energy. To draw a line is to place oneself inside a box.

Oh and the reason why philsosphers know they have no knowledge is because they know that all they know are assumptions. It is the assumption that we know nothing that we base our theories of knowledge off of.
Ahh I love Philospophy class.